[4evrhntn]

This is a topic started by predator one. It was started in the site forum and was not getting any responses. I think its a good topic so I started it again here. Predator one said. "Many hunters feel that current forestry practices threaten our deer's survival, especially when we get bad winters. We need a forest industry in New Brunswick but we also need to protect our deer population.Government values protecting the fiber supply but do they see the value in a healthy deer population?"

 

[Bearhunter]

Short answer is no! They value are deer population as much as our rabbit population, as long as there are a few around that is all they care about. Think about it, they make millions every year off the taxes from the forestry companys and they emploee there province dwellers. So Y do you think they care about hunting and the deer, because they make a couple million off liscenses. Nothing you can do except buy your own land and manage it to hold deer!

 

[Hunttoomuch]

Short answer is no! They value are deer population as much as our rabbit population, as long as there are a few around that is all they care about. Think about it, they make millions every year off the taxes from the forestry companys and they emploee there province dwellers. So Y do you think they care about hunting and the deer, because they make a couple million off liscenses. Nothing you can do except buy your own land and manage it to hold deer!

X2

 

[Riverboy]

Can they survive the forest industries ghastly management practices? Yes. Will they flourish? No.

 

[greatwhite]

Can they survive the forest industries ghastly management practices? Yes. Will they flourish? No.

Actually deer thrive in cut overs. The new tender shoots of the young sapplings and the small grasses. It is Moose that present a bigger challenge.

 

[Riverboy]

Greatwhite,I beg to differ.Moose are thriving in the province on crown land and deer are suffering.The numbers are there to back up my post,if you care to check it out.Do you live in New Brunswick? Do you hunt? Do you work in the forest industry? Just trying to figure out where you are coming from with that post.Cheers....Riverboy

 

[nbbucks]

Deer do well if the cut isn't sprayed as in a few years there is nice browse. The problem is spraying. It seems like 80% of all cuts nowadays get sprayed. This kills all the great browse thus providing no feed. Another problem is when prime wintering habitat gets cut. Good browse doesn't replace good wintering grounds.

 

[nick]

Deer do well if the cut isn't sprayed as in a few years there is nice browse. The problem is spraying. It seems like 80% of all cuts nowadays get sprayed. This kills all the great browse thus providing no feed. Another problem is when prime wintering habitat gets cut. Good browse doesn't replace good wintering grounds.

I have to agree with you there. I work in the woods and i see way to much deer/moose habitat distroyed for no good reason.

 

[Axeman]

You'd think with the downturn in the forest industry that it would benefit the forest - less harvesting on crown land. However, the opposite has happened - they are cuting the Crown land MORE lately than ever. Private woodlot owners won't sell their wood from it because the forest companies aren't willing to pay what it's worth. So what has happened? Forest companies buy the cheap wood from our government! From our Crown land! We're giving our wood away so these guys can get rich. Want to change things, and improve things for both the private woodlot owner, the Crown land AND government? Increase the stumpage fees and royalties that forest companies have to pay for OUR wood! We (the peope of NB) get more money for the wood, cutting on Crown land slows down, and private woodlot owners are back in the game and able to make a buck.

I can't believe this is not discussed more.

 

[nbdeerhunter]

simple short answer....no woods no deer

 

[Riverboy]

This subject was discussed a fair bit on the old forum and I was amazed at the twisted logic of some of the forest industry workers. Fear and loathing is alive and well in this sector of the economy in New Brunswick.What I have seen happen in the last forty years in our forests is enough to make a grown man cry.When it comes to government and big business,it's all smoke and mirrors and bulls--t. We,the people of New Brunswick,are getting ripped off big-time, both on the Crown land and in the private sector.And guess who allows this to happen? Every government who has been in power since the Hatfield regime.I pray everyday that I live long enough to see a positive change in the way our forests are managed,but it is quite discouraging to see the same terrible things going on year after year.My greatest hope is that the internet and forums such as this will cause people to unite and vote enmass for real change in the way things are done in our forests.In the meantime,I would encourage outdoorsmen across the province to join some of the many different organizations across the province that are trying to improve the habitat that our fish and game lives in in New Brunswick.Whew,it sure feels good to let go with a good spew once in a while!

 

[Riverboy]

Still stirring.

 

[ryhan]

Can they survive the forest industries ghastly management practices? Yes. Will they flourish? No.

I agree with you there on that one.

 

[Riverboy]

Hey Hoytman,just knowing there are others out there who feel the same way and have seen the same things provides a bit of comfort,at least.I just hope people get more vocal about the situation and try to keep the issues alive,especially with another election looming on the horizon.We have to remember,it's not just outdoorsmen who are getting burned,but all New Brunswickers.I know I will be giving any candidates brave enough to approach me an earfull and I hope other concerned citizens will do likewise.

 

[nick]

I agree with nbdeerhunter, no woods no deer

 

[Predator One]

I believe one of the biggest problems we hunters face with disappearing deer habitat...the woodlands... is that neither industry or government recognizes the value of the white tailed deer in terms of renewable resources and the economy. That same forest that a logging company cuts in mere days does assist the provincial economy initially and provides marketable fibre and obviously employment...but that same piece of real estate needs a large infusion/investment of money and time to prepare it for another wood harvest in thirty to forty years. Now,if that same forest/deer yard/habitat had limited logging take place with the welfare of our deer in mind,every one would be a winner...the logging company,the hunter, the economy...and most importantly...the deer herd which can be harvested/hunted every year. Hunting brings in major money to our economy utilizing a renewable resource...every year with minimal investment on part of government...but the "powers that be" need to realize this. I am not advocating a total shutdown of the forest industry...just that wood harvesting plans seriously take our wildlife into consideration...and not simply mention their concern for it in the five year harvesting plans as a token gesture to appease the people.

 

[Axeman]

"...but the "powers that be" need to realize this."

as an employee of DNR you are doing what to help this?

 

[Sako]

When the big forestry companies moved into N.B. 30 plus years ago no one could have foreseen what devestation they were bringing. We trusted our gov. to make them go by the rules and actually reap the harvest. What we got was a raping of the land. Employment and economics were at the front and everything else at the rear. Deer actually flourished at this time and record numbers were present province wide. Clearcuts were replanted but with species that aren't considered deer food. Herbicide was implimented to reduce the undesirable natural regeneration. Most of this regeneration was a food source for both deer and moose depending how high it got. Our wildlife got very little consideration when it came to the forest industry, natural deer wintering areas were cut, all for the sake of the dollar. Nothing has changed ,as of yet, except the deer. We have reduced numbers and in most areas deer don't yard in large groups, like they historically did, but gather in small groups where winter food exists. I really believe deer will survive in this province but it may be only on private land or in your neighbourhood. As for Predator One working for DNR, just because you sell Ford trucks doesn't mean you have any say in how they're built.

 

[water_runner]

As brought up by nbbucks, current forestry practices are reducing the amount of forage left for our deer population. The push in the industry is for wood volume and mostly softwood wood volume at all costs following clearcut harvest: site prep, plant, herbicide (sometimes twice or even three times), precommercial thin (maybe, maybe not, depends on how everything else went), commercial thin (once, more likely twice) final harvest. Do you know what the plan is at each stage? To remove all competition other than conifers. The worst practice is the conversion of mixed wood stand types into pure softwood stands. We used to have more intolerant hardwoods in softwood plantations following clearcut harvest. It is all about the m3/ha/year. We still live in the age of pulp and paper with little focus on other products.

We are even converting tolerant mixed wood stands into uniform age class plantations because the percent thresholds set by DNR are too lax. I caution you to not only focus on how important deer wintering areas are. DWAs may be important, but IMO we have other problems.

 

[water_runner]

btt