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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here it is a place for everyone to vent or suggest improvements to the NB Moose Draw system.
My first ideas: and feel free to disagree or improve on them:

1--- PAL required
2--- 3 year wait after getting drawn for a tag
3--- Allow 16yr olds access to the draw, If they can buy a tag for deer and bear (which comes with it's own set of rules), moose should be OK too.
 

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why should PAL be required? the whole gun registry thing is retarded anyways and from some news of late is possibly on its way out...but there should be a wait after you are drawn but its not going to change here cause the governement likes the money...there are some god systems in other provinces across this great country but it seems NB DNR doesn't want to look at them and model ourselves after the ones that work so well.
 

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To me there is a problem with using your medicare number to enter the draw. I think this is why some people get it often and others never do. I think it should be like the doe application where you would go to the DNR, pay the $10 dollar application fee and get an application number. This would give you a completely random number to be drawn instead of the same number every year which is obviously either lucky or not.
You should also have to show proof of hunter education or experience before you apply, and they should bring back the old shooting test.
 

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I agree that the age should be put down to 16. If they're trusting us to be safe and ethical shooting deer and bear, why not moose? I also think that only hunters should be alloud to apply. If YOU apply YOU should be the one who wants to shoot a moose, not apply to let your wife/husband/uncle etc, shoot a moose.
 

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Here's what I think:

  1. Use PAL number for application or assign a WIN number like in Alberta that you keep your entire life. You get this when you buy a hunting license and show proof of a hunter's education/gun safety course or grandfathered in from the past - not a medicare number. Gets rid of the non-hunters applying

  • Have more Pirority Groups like in Alberta- nobody gets a chance at a tag unless they are in a high priority. This can work for each Zone

  • Force the Native hunters to keep track of kill numbers so we can get more tags out to the taxpayers

If the government if worried about the money lost by the draw then put up the draw fee, license fee and give more tags/sell more licences and this would balance out the revenue lost by the non-hunters not putting in for the draw.

I would not mind paying a bit more if I knew my odds of getting picked were better as long as more tags were issued.
 

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i have to agree with squirrel.the med card system seems iffy.if it was done the same way as the antlerless deer draw, where upon proof of past hunting experience OR safety and education courses you get to enter the draw it may work better.this would thin out the number of people applying and probably make the woods a little more safe at the same time!it seems every year the bosse's sister's neighbour's 3rd cousin ends up with a licence and wouldn't know a cow moose from a black bear!
 

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Just a heads up, Native hunters are taxpayers to
 

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All good points. Medicare number shouldn't be used, 'cause when I don't get picked on the draw date, I get an annual uncurable sickness that comes over me!


A very simplistic approach to weaning out the non-hunters would be to have a $100 party fee application, hunting party consisting of 4 to 5 people. This would bring the annual application fee up from $9 to more than double, but would filter out unwanted applications. Once a party is drawn for a WMZ, then the party chief could elect to add on to the group of hunters or camarades, so the ones that really enjoy the 3 day autumn rite can participate. Also, instead of a primary and designated hunter, the group would elect two (2) hunters annualy, courteous groups would soon have an annual rotation of hunters so that each member gets his chance to shoot a moose, or at least try.

Typically, an ideal moose hunting party should consist of 4-5 hardcore hunters afield, ie: 2 hunters and 2 experienced callers / trackers. These 2-3 people group would split up within allowed distances and moose hunt would end at first blood.

Always nice to have an additional softcore member or 2 roaming the roads, on the lookout for fresh sign, or simply keeping everything tidy at the cabin / trailer and cooking meals / drinking beer.

A few years back, a friend of mine came over to the camp to say hello, saw a young bull a mile or so from the camp, brought us over there, we called him out and it made for a great end to our hunt.

NB Moose hunting is a deeply rooted tradition in New-Brunswicker families. It comes at a time of year when spirits run high, anticipation is at it's peak, and the lore of the NB woods and the chance to harvest the great Moose and to enjoy the tender meat over the winter is on everybody's agenda.

I sincerely hope that whatever changes brought forth, if any, will be orchestrated in such a fashion that we will be able to keep this great tradition alive, it defines us as NB hunters.

The New-Brunswick Moose (Alces Alces), the true monarch of our great NB forests.

My 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
why should PAL be required? the whole gun registry thing is retarded anyways and from some news of late is possibly on its way out...but there should be a wait after you are drawn but its not going to change here cause the governement likes the money...there are some god systems in other provinces across this great country but it seems NB DNR doesn't want to look at them and model ourselves after the ones that work so well.
Because for better or worse (mostly worse) the PAL system is what we have to work with right now.
If you need a PAL even to borrow a gun you should need to have one to apply or buy a hunting license
use the "retarded" system to our own good use for once, it has cost us enough

I like the idea of the WIN system they use in Alberta for a # instead of the medicare #
I like the idea of the party system 2 guns 1 moose 4 hunters ...maybe similar to the crown reserve system for salmon?
The Native hunters should definitely report their harvest only as a tool for moose herd managment (dont wanna step into that hornet's nest)


I think we need ways to stop unqualified people from applying and increase the opportunity for young hunters (ie; 16 to 18 yrs)
 

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What if I only bow hunt? The pal thing could never fly. I think the party hunts like bulls eyes says will be the way to go. I have said before that simply raising the application fee to 50 dollars would get rid of nonhunters. But I think there would be alot of hollering if that was implemented.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What if I only bow hunt? The pal thing could never fly. I think the party hunts like bulls eyes says will be the way to go. I have said before that simply raising the application fee to 50 dollars would get rid of nonhunters. But I think there would be alot of hollering if that was implemented.
If you bow hunt you need a # from your bowhunting education course card.
I agree for an increase to the application only if a big %, say, 80% is applied to the purchase of your tag and anyone not successful gets back ,say, 50%.

Would that work?
 

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I agree, the PAL requirement would exclude bow hunters.

If you bow hunt you need a # from your bowhunting education course card.
Not if your grandfathered, as you don't need that course if you are.

Instead of the PAL, perhaps use your provincially assigned Drivers License# or its Provincial ID# equivalent.

If you don't have one, due to legal punishment, then too bad.

I don't think that raising the fee is really going to deter non-hunters. These people are typically applying for the hunters anyways.
 

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CONGRATULATIONS to all who managed to get a moose license! I FINALLY got mine for the first time in 15 years.I feel your pain for all who didn't, as i've cursed and swore over the years because of how this draw system is set up. What needs to happen is firstly find a way to get ride of every person who is not a TRUE hunter. To all of you who get every person you know to apply..SHAME ON YOU. YOU'RE GREEDY. I'm sure that everyone wants to go every year, but wouldn't it be better if EVERYONE got to go once say every six years? Get rid of the tree-huggers from PETA who apply also. This draw needs to be set up for hunters who have lived here for years. A point system sounds like the way to go for me. Apply every year and you get a point. Accumulate six points,YOU'RE GOING HUNTING GAURENTEED. Then the process starts all over again. Alot won't like it ( THE GREEDY )but it keeps it fair for all.
 

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why should PAL be required? the whole gun registry thing is retarded anyways and from some news of late is possibly on its way out...but there should be a wait after you are drawn but its not going to change here cause the governement likes the money...there are some god systems in other provinces across this great country but it seems NB DNR doesn't want to look at them and model ourselves after the ones that work so well.
The Registry may be going away (we will see in September) but the PAL is here to stay.... though the feds don't even need to see it to sell you a migratory license so sure nix the PAL requirement

How about this, simply require applicants at the time of registering for the draw -- to produce the same information that one needs to get a deer or small game license? So when you go in yourself to apply for the draw they ask you to produce an old license (grandfathered) or a hunter education card. If you possess neither then you can not apply. I would bet 10000 - 15000 applicants would easily disappear overnight.
 

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I do not understand? Naive hunters???
I think it means Native hunters,
but i do agree we need to watch those "NAIVE" hunters LOL
 

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Holy crow - I hope none of you guys ever get elected into politics so you can see some of your ideas actually used.....if so, some of us are in deep S#&t!!

Up the fee? Hold on there guys. These kind of suggestions is what heads us down the road of only the rich and famous applying and hunting a resource that should be there for all of us. Drives me nuts when the government says our licence fee is the same cost as those licences across canada. Anyone ever compare the average annual income of NB'ers compared to those who live in Ontario and Alberta?? Why should our hunting licence cost the same if the average annual income is significnatly less here?

If we upped the fee to 100 dollars for an application, That's going to kill guys like me who love to hunt, but are trying to make a living on one income in a family. Think some of these things through a bit first guys.

Second - we do have a point/pool system. Someone posted this in another thread. We have 3 priority pools. You keep applying and are unsuccessful, you eventually end up in Pool A where the odds of you being drawn is double the pool C. I spoke with two men yesterday - One who had not been drawn since 1961, and the other man had not been drawn in 38 years. Both were drawn and very happy guys.

Applying by hunting party is not a bad idea....if you could convince the hunters of this. It solves a few problems: the cost (at $100) and the number of applicants. However, we all know what happens as soon as you begin this system too - One REAL hunter applies with 3 phony people, and his 3 other hunting buddies do the same thing. increases their odds by 4 fold. One gets drawn, substitute your other buddies for your 3 bogus guys and off you go.

Letting in 16 & 17 year olds? Man - don't get me started. That is a HUGE NO BRAINER! I still think they should be allowed to hunt everything at 12. Moose, deer - everything......And don't start with the..."some kids are too young at 12, mentor system, etc, etc". We hunters are our own worse enemies on this! Do you think the government will implement anything like that without having a load of bells, whistles and hoops to jump through all on their own? Why complicate it right off the bat and discourage any lowering of the age limit? Just about every other North American jurisdiction out there has a lower age limit - WITH NO mentors, limitations, etc. AND THEY DO FINE! kids not capable simply won't do it. Stats show that youth hunters are the safest out there. None of these jurisdictions have big problems with injuries, etc. that everyone always talks about. For crying out loud, just lobby to lower the age to 12 and leave it. (Ok - end of rant).

Comparing the NB system with other systems is a GREAT idea. But compare the NUMBER of Moose, NUMBER of applicants and size of moose herd. For crying out loud guys - Alberta, Ontario and Quebec are 10-50 times the size of NB, with 10-50 times the number of moose, but not 10-50 times the hunters! Demand there is lower, so they CAN get everyone drawn in 5-10 years.
In NB - we have 65,000 AT LEAST (I think they said over 100,000 DIFFERENT applicants apply over 10 years. We have 50,000 deer hunters, most of who are likely moose hunters as well. so divy up 3,500 licences over 50,000 hunters and AT BEST it will take almost 15 years for 50,000 to be drawn. If we don't limit the applications and keep out granny, sally and tom who never held a gun in his life, it will take 30 years. You can devise whatever system you want, 3 year, 10 year wait, whatever.......you CAN'T get around that we have lots of hunters applying for just a few tags.

EVERYONE registering moose - regardless of who you are - is also a no brainer. If you pay taxes, then stick with the stinkin system and register your moose. You register your car don't you? No difference.
 

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Here is what I hope insightful information about our current draw system, and how it applied to our hunting group this year. Draw your own conclusions.

We are a tight group of 10-12 outdoorsman who like to share a moose / bear / deer / fishing camp every year. Most of us have a sibling or 2, and a parent or 2 who love to hunt and religiously apply every year. By RELIGIOUSLY, I mean we don't skip a beat, we always apply, every year. A lot of folks do not apply on a yearly basis and then complain they never get drawn (I know some of you reading this have gone over 20 years without getting drawn, and for those select few, I sympathize). Yet I'm constantly amazed when someone tells me he never got drawn in the last 15 years, I ask him for his medicare # to check his pooling and he / she skipped 4-5 yrs...

Back to the math: 12 guys x avg 3-4 relatives / good hunting buddies = approximately 50 applications

We DO NOT ask John and Mary Doe to apply. All those applying are hunters, have their hunter ed, own a firearm or a bow, etc. I'm merely pointing out here that it doesn't take long to increase the number of applicants to 60,000, which only represents 8% of our total population.

The overall success rate is 1 in 17 applicants, so logic stands to reason that our group should get 3 licences a year....logically speaking.

Last year, we had 2 licences, this year, we have 5.... + a buddy of mine who just called me to see if I could guide him (I know some of you are getting pissed, but it gets worse...read on).

Of those 6 lucky Moose Draw winners, ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THEM were A pool, 2 were Bs and 4 were Cs.... The 4 Cs, 2 were newcomers to the draw (a youngster and a relocation to the Province), the other 2 having had their licences drawn in the last 8 years...

This is why I would favorably see a hunting party application (no increased fees; $100 between 5 guys is pocket change).

For the members of our hunting group, this would represent having the opportunity to hunt over 2-3 licences spread out between 15 hunters every odd year or so.

This factual based reply is merely to point out that the system is really flawed, and it needs to undergo major reconstruction.

Case in point, one of the lucky winner this year is my dad, 2 moose tags in his lifetime at the ripe old age of 74, but also 2 in the last 4 years...where's the fairness in that?

I rest my case.
 

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I agree, the PAL requirement would exclude bow hunters.

Not if your grandfathered, as you don't need that course if you are.
There was no grandfathering with the bowhunter education course.
If you bowhunt in NB you are required by law to have a stand alone course and to carry your card that shows you have taken a course.
 

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There was no grandfathering with the bowhunter education course.
If you bowhunt in NB you are required by law to have a stand alone course and to carry your card that shows you have taken a course.
As a trapper, I have a 6 digit trapper ID number that was assigned to me when the furharvester course became law.

As hunters (gun/bow/other), shouldn't we get assigned such a number to be used as an ID validation for all draws and applications?

Looking at the 2009 Big Game Report Data, I notice that approx 50,000 hunters purchased a deer license in 2009, not too far from the 62,000 moose applicants this year, and only an average of 50 licenses are not purchased and / or forfeited each year, so I doubt that the Anti s have a big say in the results.

I would still like those 50 licenses to be rolled back into a mini late minute draw (....say end of August deadline to purchase, mini-draw first week of Sept), somewhat similar to open Crown Reserve Stretches still being made available to the anglers.

This would allow 50 or so additional hunting party to participate in this exciting hunt NB still has to offer...
 

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I understand the concept of what is being done but to me, each pool is growing in size every year and even though Pool A has more licenses taken from it, the pool is growing larger and larger every year.

That being said, I don't know what the government will do to change the current draw pracices, if at all as this is a major revenue stream for them. Call in fees, moose license and second shooter permits is a revenue stream of upwards of or over a million dollars. Very easy money and guaranteed every year.

One thing I would like to see is a deadline set for purchasing your moose license. As it stands, you can purchase it right up to the day of the hunt or into it, If I am not mistaken. In order to pick up your crown reserve fishing time, you have a certain date to do so by. Why not moose? You can eliminate the anti's who purposely enter to eliminate the legit hunter. I think a month, month and a half after the original draw is sufficient.

With left over licenses, throw back into the draw, free of charge, to the zone that they were drawn from and pick the remainder. I am sure alot of people would be quite happy to get a late gift like that, me included!

As is stands now, there are some licenses not purchased for whatever reasons and in my opinion should be made available to those who weren't.

Just my two cents and ramblings.
 
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