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Just wondering if any one has seen the moose kill numbers for this year? Cant seem to find them if they are out yet.
 

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NativeHunter 2010, I have a question and I hope you take this in the vein that it is asked, which is purely from the perspective that I'd like to learn and understand both sides of the issue. This is not any kind of an accusation nor am I implying anything, just trying to learn a little bit about the issues.
Why is the native community reluctant to report the number of moose kills ?
If you feel that you are qualified to provide an answer on that I'd appreciate hearing your perspective.
Respectfully
Dave
 

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No ones reluctant, just dont really see the need to...
Herds are fine. Lots of Moose. and we know that the % taken is not that high.

The Native harvest isnt the shoot em all, year long event its made out to be...


I for one, dont have a lot of faith in the Gov't or their agenda(s) (alot of past dealings never worked out good for the Natives in general)...

But ill tell you, if the time comes that the Herds are dwindling beyond a sustainable limit, ill be one of the first to lay my rifle down.
 

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1 to 2 moose per year, depending on the demand from my family
Sounds like most fellas i know NH2010...
 

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NP brother
 

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too bad you 2 weren't the norm cause I know of 3 natives that have shot way more moose than 1 or 2 per year.
but I will say this.
I know its not just the native's the white man does his fair share of poaching as well.

Nativehunter2010 and Muin = Answer this. If DNR only wanted the natives to report the harvest #'s to get a more accurate reading for NB's moose popluation why not report your harvest. This way maybe we all can get a chance to harvest a moose. If the natives reported their harvests DNR could report on these #'s in their annual big game reports and if the herd is as strong as everyone says it is then more tags could be handed out to the non natives and we could all enjoy the strong NB moose herd

Nobody has any faith in the govt around here native or non native so that comment doens't hold much weight in my book.
 

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nbdeerhunter, just a question.

These 3 natives maybe hunt for the reserve?
There are hunts and hunters on some reserves where more than 1 or 2 are harvested (for the reserve) and the meat is passed out to members of the non-hunting population.

perhaps a possibility?

Just curious.

I know quite a few Natives who harvest 1 (and yes, sometimes none)

Between work and family, its at times hard to even get out.

Nobody has any faith in the govt around here native or non native so that comment doens't hold much weight in my book.
Dont blame ya! LOL, but as far as weight, just a tad difference..IMO

Now,now let's all get along children
LOL Birddog
 

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NH2010 you really believe that only 450 moose were killed by natives. holy sweet mother of god man wake up and shake your head. your math is a bit off, you forgot about all the off reserve native harvest #'s
1/5 you say well that is pretty high assuming your #'s are accurate which I doubt seeing as the native population in this province is probably well below 20% (that is 1/5 if you needed to know) of NB's total population (October 2nd 2010 NB population is approximately 752,290)
In 2006 there were roughly 18,000 natives in NB
that works out to 1 moose per 40 natives
in turn
1 moose per 305 non natives

just think about those #'s and let me know your harvest is high

BTW - how many of those 450 moose where shot with a bow or musket like it was hundreds of years ago!!! Maybe your hunting and fishing methods should only be permitted in such a way that its tradional treaty times. NO rifles / trucks / atv's etc

Why would DnR go visit you, no native is going to tell DnR they shot 1 2 or 10 moose. just for the simple reason that you don't have too. Its not up to the game wardens its up to the high up people to set these systems up then they become enforced by the wardens.

muin - the 3 I know don't even live anywhere close to a reserve so I doubt it plus they don't mind bragging about how many they shoot. I know 1 native that will even take you with him and let you shoot it for a $50 cash and he just claims it. He made that offer to me 1 time and was at least smart enough to never talk to me again
it is possible that it was for other non hunting natives but I have my doubts

I am not going to get into a battle with you boys over this. We all know that the natives have the gov't where they want them and these treaties seem to hold up to any and everything.

I have to wonder though. its 2010 people we are supposed to be 1 nation / 1 people / 1 set of rules for EVERYONE to abide by, Why cant this just happen instead of the current double standard that is happening everyday.
 

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BTW - how many of those 450 moose where shot with a bow or musket like it was hundreds of years ago!!! Maybe your hunting and fishing methods should only be permitted in such a way that its tradional treaty times. NO rifles / trucks / atv's etc
LOL, here we go with this argument again LOL... Not even going to get this one going again....


its 2010 people we are supposed to be 1 nation / 1 people / 1 set of rules for EVERYONE to abide by, Why cant this just happen instead of the current double standard that is happening everyday.
Well i dont see it as a double standard.
I see it for what it is - We are 2 different cultures sharing this land.

(The fact that we are different, is why we are always having to have these conversation's)

When the Native populations of Canada had Nothing, oppressed and living a sub standard existence. When we were displaced from our traditional lands, and our children taken away, where was all screaming for Equality, 1 people and 1 land?
So lets not talk about double standards

The Natives of this county are all united via a common thread, and unfortunatley many also share the same problems.

When the treaties were signed, it was between "2" Separate Nations, and certain rights were protected in them.
just cause time passes by, this doesnt change. These treaties were signed in good faith and meant to stand against the "test of time", or they wouldnt have been worth the paper they were written on.

Canada's Gov'ts and courts seem to agree, at least in part with me.

BTW, Natives were not even recognized as citizens of canada or allowed to vote until the 1960's!!!
 

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Well in my opinion their are people on both sides of this problem. I heard of some white men that shoot over 25-30 moose a year in zone 7. How they do it, simple they find some young native with a drug problem feed him what ever drugs he wants and he claime the moose if they are stopped. What do the wardens do about this, nothing they are scared for their familys well being because these people a half nuts. This is second hand info i heard of guy one day while fishing. Its not the first time i hear of things like this going on in this province. White man paying natives to come with them in case they get stopped. So both sides are to blame in this problem. And for those that keep buying moose meat, well their the source of this problem and it will keep going on. 5 years ago i was snaring rabbits in late November and came up on 3 diferent dead moose with the antlers gone all about 2-3 days old. All in the same area, 5 milles give or take. I reported it to dnr they said they already knew about it. I met a local guy the next day, a local "nark" i should say, not to far from the area and talked to him about it. He told me that the wardens got a report that a native was was out looking to beat a bet that he made with another guy. Looking for the biggest head gear. The wardens never caught him in the act but they know he had killed at least 5 moose that week all with the antlers missing.
 

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I met a local guy the next day, a local "nark" i should say, not to far from the area and talked to him about it
He told me that the wardens got a report that a native was was out looking to beat a bet that he made with another guy. Looking for the biggest head gear. The wardens never caught him in the act but they know he had killed at least 5 moose that week all with the antlers missing
Remember to take this for what it is "a rumour".
Unless you have first hand knowledge, comments like this are not very useful, and only serve to add fuel to the fire.
Alot of he said, my brother knows i guy who, i heard from so and so .. etc. are nothing more than B/S..
 

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I'm not going to get into the obvious bashing going on but I do know one young native guy that works with me that personally shot 13 moose last year. He hasn't had any opportunity to hunt much this year due to work restraints and other commitments but hopes to get out this month. I know this contradicts what was posted but it's still fact.What do you do with that much meat? It doesn't matter what race or ethnic group you belong to there are bad apples in every group.
 

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So what we've established is that poaching is done by frenchmen, white guys pay natives to take them on illegal moose hunts, natives kill an awful lot of moose that we don't know about. I think probably the chinese are involved somewhere in there I'm just not sure how and the war in Afghanistan has probably more to do with illegal moose hunting than the war on Terrorism cause I hear those Al Queda guys are all about unregistered guns and moose meat. Actually its probably everybody except me dammit, I'm the only one not doing anything illegal apparently so I think I'll call DNR and tell them to be on the lookout for anybody with a nice truck, big ATV, nice camp, french accent, red skin, treaty card, round white eyes, slanted dark eyes or a dish towel on their head and doesn't live at my place.
This has become kind of stupid if you ask me.

So heres my take on the what the bigger issue is and I'll give you an example. This year 1 of my good friends got drawn for moose in the Dalhousie area, first time ever and very excited and rightly so. He takes another of my good friends with him as the 2nd gun. They hook up with another of his relatives that also got drawn so they have 2 tags and 4 guns and off they go....long story short...they fire at 4 different moose, they confirm they hit 3 of them, they recover 1 moose. End result, without getting into details, they got 1 moose and at least 2 others are dead in the woods and maybe a third. 4 moose down. I'm thinking that is probably a bigger problem than any of us know or care to admit, the only difference with these guys is they actually told me about it. How many moose are shot during hunting season, not recovered for whatever reason and nobody says a word about it to anybody? And I'd put all ethnic groups in that category.

So between incompetent white people, poaching frenchman, overconsuming natives, I'm sure glad I'm not a moose in New Brunswick. There is no 1 group that is more responsible than another and every group has its share of bad apples. We are all equally responsible for whatever it is that we see the problem is. Whatever problem you have with the moose hunt is not solely the result of any other ethnic group, its a combination of many different factors all contributing to the problem. It just is.....
Its easy to be anonymous and point the finger at each other and say "you guys are the problem"
 

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I do know one young native guy that works with me that personally shot 13 moose last year
Do you know this? you have seen them/this? Or is this what he told you? (some are full of BS you know)

Whatever problem you have with the moose hunt is not solely the result of any other ethnic group, its a combination of many different factors all contributing to the problem. It just is.....
Its easy to be anonymous and point the finger at each other and say "you guys are the problem"
This has become kind of stupid if you ask me
I agree


(LOL on the Al Queda)


Actually its probably everybody except me dammit, I'm the only one not doing anything illegal apparently
And i thought i was the only one ...

Any who, im off to get ready to head into the woods, where its Calm, peaceful and relaxing.

Ill be back later.
WUHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAA
 

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Mu'in, I realize people exagerate and I wasn't there but 13 is an odd number, why not 15? He may have been telling a tale but Why? He's one of the few natives in the department and practically all the guys are hunters, so why bother to tell everyone if it's not true. Some of the guys think he may be full of crap and trying to cause some turmoil but that would just get him unemployed. I really think this topic is way off base and everybody needs to respect each other for what they are..... HUNTERS.... Drop the racial crap and get back to the topic. Read the first post, it had nothing to do with what this has evolved into.
 

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How do you know it wasn't a frenchmen? I find that frenchmen have more money and resources to hunt areas like zone 7. And also have more knowledge of those big areas compared to us natives that have difficulty even getting off the reserve to go grocery shopping...seriously.

I have hunted zone 7 before and have never seen a warden ever! Lots of frenchman though! With big fancy trucks...massive 4 wheelers, nice expensive guns...looked like they were set right up to haul out moose!

I got a story for you too...In 2005...I seen a MONSTER BULL MOOSE...probably Boone & Crockett...The MONSTER BULL was 200 yards up a hill on a skidder cut...with all kinds of deadfalls all over. It was too rough for me to even think of tangling with...so I just looked at the MONSTER BULL through the scope...letting him go...what a majestic sight seeing him crest the hill and seeing his antlers almost span 3/4 of that skidder trail.

I hunted for him all that season...never seeing him again...I did manage to find a dead cow moose...and also a dead 7 pt bull moose (which was 5 km away in another spot).

Now...I believe that MONSTER BULL was shot for it's antlers...by the FRENCHMEN!!! All season those were the only hunters I saw there in that area...all season I never ran into another native hunter there at all!!! The vision of frenchman getting drunk at some fancy camp...looking at those MONSTER antlers...saying "Lok at dat der rack!".

I have talked to wardens before about finding dead game...and I quote "When we find dead game, we don't blame the natives...because a native takes care of what he shoots...he has no reason to run off and leave anything behind.
Well in the end i still think that the "white man" is still at the root cause of the problem by suporting "some Natives" notice the word SOME that kill and sell for $$$ even if its moose salmon lobster or deer. I remenber a few years ago at least once a week a native would stop by the house and offer to sell some salmon lobster or moose what ever was in season. And what the [email protected]#K is it with the french owning all this nice equipment??? Are the english people considered to be poor or what??? I see just as many nice english or french trucks and gear in the woods when hunting. Plus ive heard and seen just as many english poach moose and deer and lobster and salmon in my 25 years in the woods. We are all to blame not just one groupe. I am friends with few natives that hold good jobs and work for a living and they dont abuse the system so im not pointing my finger at you guys its just certain few from each reserve that screw it up for all of you. Like i said in my earlier post their is 2 sides to this or 3 if the french are so different than the english.
 

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Good luck Hoytman, Smoke a Bruiser ...

Hmmm, in the end we may make some progress after all

We are not as different as some may think.....
I believe you may be right.

Good Luck to all, Be safe.

Later,

NH2010, keep me updated on how the hunt goes bro.
 

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Well Well...Look at that folks...after 20 years of the Sparrow Treaty being in affect...and with natives not declaring their annual kills per reservation...the moose herd seems to be doing just fine...no matter what some hunters and DNR officials claim...argument closed!

By the way...some of those bulls shot this year...could have been some of the 15 bulls I passed up last year...
This thread was directed to anyone who knew what the moose kill numbers were for the 3 day season this year. It was not meant to start an arguement as you stated. Also, good job on passing up those 15 bulls. It shows you must be a true sportsman. We all have our bad seeds so lets not point fingers and blame each other.

For those who responded next time just ignore a post that's going start a fire. We're all adults here so lets keep our discussions civil.

Mu'in you have a very diplomatic approach to such a sensitive issue. You have my vote to be the official spokesman for native rights.
I would gladly share a camp with you any day.

That being said I honestly think most of us here our jealous of your rights. Some guys wait a lifetime to hunt this great beast and only having 3 days every 10 years or so is frustrating to say the least. I know if I had your rights I would fight for the death to keep them. Nobody here should or will ever take that from you and I'm sure most of us is ashamed of the way our forefathers treated the natives when they arrived. Remember we all bleed red and are all human so let's start treating and acting that way.

As far as the native members of this site your obviously are on this site for a reason. Just like everyone else you love nothing more in life than pursuing the game that our wonderful province offers.

Good luck to all and have safe and happy hunting.
 

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NH2010 you need to read my post again. I got the #'s from your post earlier. Math isn't that hard if you go to school and get educated. Try it lord knows its free for you.

as for you not being able to find a job........LOL. Nobody around here should be able to say I can't find work.....there is lots around if you can get your ass of your couch.

You can throw insults at me all day thats fine but my numbers are based off what you told me and info I pulled from the net to make a point.

I never once said that the native harvest was the only issue. Just wanted to know why its such a big deal for the natives to report their harvests so Dnr can get more accurate #'s we all know that poaching is a huge issue in NB and those #'s will never be accurately accounted for but the rest could be.
In the end of the day we all want the same thing. strong wildlife herds province wide but everyone needs to get on board with that and its not happening.

As for the frenchmen comment I had to laugh at that. Trust me man its not just frenchmen...its every race that poaches. we just need to stop it.

Tell me this how many poaching reports have you called into DNR??? I have reported 3 and 2 were convicted. I am not well like by certain people and that is fine with me,,,if you can't follow the rules f*ckem

If your words are backed by your actions and your not just feeding everyone on there a pile of BS than good for you and maybe your job should be teaching the other natives how to conserve the wildlife with have here in NB

anyway enough said
 
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