New Brunswick Hunting Forum banner
41 - 57 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
867 Posts
Without closeure the pressure is focused on the pockets where deer still exist i figured about 50% of the deer i let walk were shot two does each had twins which will likely not make winter.The myth your dnr has pushed is that bears are eating the deer is false its another tactic to draw your attention away from forestry.Evven moose are rarely eaten by bears.there is ample food during the calveing season for bears in nb they dont need to prey on fawns.coyotes.bobcats.lynx.fisher would eat far more fawns as well as voltures and eagles.cant control coyotes cant shoot lynx and eagles so we blame something.fact iss the deer are in trouble due to two things one too many die and loss of winter habitat.great deer yards are useles if theres a mile of tundra on all four sides!
I understand your frustration with the deer situation,but spreading false information does nothing to further the cause.Theres been plenty of evidence garnered from studies,not just in NB,showing that bears are significant contributors to fawn predation,including if I'm not mistaken a study by our very own RC Axeman who's integrity nobody here can question.
Plentiful feed aside,bears are opportunistic omnivores and would not turn down a tasty tender fawn treat.In NFLD in particular,where until recent years seeing the arrival of coyotes to the island,black bears grow huge and are(were) the only large predators on the rock,and it's been well documented that they take a significant number of moose calves,as many as 30%+ of all calves born if I recall correctly.I recall accounts and video of NF bears actually stalking calving mother moose and literally ripping half born calves from the womb before it's feet ever hit the ground in fact.
Jest sayn......it's rediculous to state that bears don't bother with fawns and calves,they most certainly do,and in NF at least for example,they actively target moose calves and are the moose's #1 predator(only predator until recently)so it's not much if a stretch to imagine that a yummy lil WT fawn is a top pick on bear's otherwise dull and boring usual spring menu.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Closing deer season won't solve much, poaching will resume probably be worse with no enforcement from DNR, predation will still be there and hard winters too, we should try to change what we can like better forest management methods to promote better deer habitats and maybe we will see drastic changes. Don't forget, we will probably see the difference in five years from now, if everything works out like planned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Only 70 % of adult deer are being successfully bred (DNR Deer Data 2014). Of these fawns born, we know from collaring fawns in 2006 & 2007 that at least 35% will not make it until fall. Primary predators were coyote (35%) and black bear (25%). when a tough winter comes, we lose 20-30% of the herd - we determine this from using Maine's data - they walk the woods every spring and count deer carcasses, and relate this directly to snowdepth. I used the same formula and just plugged in NB snowdepth - why reinvent the wheel? Of the 20-30% winter loss, HALF is always fawns. Therefore, we are hit 3 times hard with fawn losses.....and we wonder why we have no deer? Herbicide/coyotes/bear and winter - 3 culprits. Losses are high when there is no place to overwinter. - forest management.

Are you getting it yet??

Maybe you need another few seasons eating track soup

I believe until all 50,000 hunters are screaming mad it is easier to change winter than forest management in NB. Prove me wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Only 70 % of adult deer are being successfully bred (DNR Deer Data 2014). Of these fawns born, we know from collaring fawns in 2006 & 2007 that at least 35% will not make it until fall. Primary predators were coyote (35%) and black bear (25%). when a tough winter comes, we lose 20-30% of the herd - we determine this from using Maine's data - they walk the woods every spring and count deer carcasses, and relate this directly to snowdepth. I used the same formula and just plugged in NB snowdepth - why reinvent the wheel? Of the 20-30% winter loss, HALF is always fawns. Therefore, we are hit 3 times hard with fawn losses.....and we wonder why we have no deer? Herbicide/coyotes/bear and winter - 3 culprits. Losses are high when there is no place to overwinter. - forest management.

Are you getting it yet??

Maybe you need another few seasons eating track soup

I believe until all 50,000 hunters are screaming mad it is easier to change winter than forest management in NB. Prove me wrong.
You got it !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Of the 35%% fawns not makeing it till fall 35% coyote 25%bear mortality.so roughly coyotes and bears take 21 fawns for every 100 born and others take 14 of every 100 born.coyote...kills 12.5% bears kill 8.5% other predators etc14% winter ..32.5% survival rate 32.5%....does this sound right bears only account for 8.5% of the annual mortality id suggest its more localised.but just to add coyotes,other predators,road etc and winter take 58% of fawns born and bears i still say are not a major factor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Rod im no opposed to your science and statements but i dont think blame should fall on bears to many are killing bears just to kill them because they think the deer problem is because of bears.people read something and suddenly its extermination time.want to make a difference listen to rods explanation of sprayand habitat loss.my opinion spray/road/habitat loss/ are the three biggest issues...coyotes..in winter are big issue as well.everyone should have coyote sttands...when we can hunt coyotes at night in winter we will really put a dent in them.yes more are born but its winter when they pressure deer the most.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
Rod im no opposed to your science and statements but i dont think blame should fall on bears to many are killing bears just to kill them because they think the deer problem is because of bears.people read something and suddenly its extermination time.want to make a difference listen to rods explanation of sprayand habitat loss.my opinion spray/road/habitat loss/ are the three biggest issues...coyotes..in winter are big issue as well.everyone should have coyote sttands...when we can hunt coyotes at night in winter we will really put a dent in them.yes more are born but its winter when they pressure deer the most.
I like your post lol, the first part you talk about Bears and people killing them because they think the deer problem is because of bears and it's extermination time, and then you say we should all have a coyote stand and kill every coyote around lol.. No pun intended but thought it was funny

and
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
I'm just stating the numbers. I'm on no witch hunt to annihilate bears.

I would like to get a few more hunters ticked off......because a few hundred here squawking will do little.......we need thousands. We have 50,000 to get to.

There apparently is a new facebook site "Stop spraying New Brunswick" that is really taking off. Lots of good material there to read.

If that doesn't tick you off....well then, your simply dead!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Im in rod whatever and where evver.i would definately help if asked.bearsden big difference between an animal that has 8-19 young every year to an animal that has 2.2 young every 2-3yrs.financially the bears have a benifit to an outfitting industry that has no deer hunting left and moose tags as rare as a snowless winter.just pointing out the huge difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Bearsden just to mention coyotes cant be exterminated its been tried many times.all that could be done is reduce the numbers during winter.they always bounce back in spring but pups dont hunt fawns adults do.lowering them while deer are yarded will help alot.knowingwhere the yards are at any given time is the hatd part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
Bearsden just to mention coyotes cant be exterminated its been tried many times.all that could be done is reduce the numbers during winter.they always bounce back in spring but pups dont hunt fawns adults do.lowering them while deer are yarded will help alot.knowingwhere the yards are at any given time is the hatd part.
The problem is right there, where the deer are yarded. A coyote won't catch a healty yarded deer, and coyotes as much as wolves or any other predator out there don't kill just for the sport of killing, they kill for food. Now what is it we have in N.B.? A bigger than normal size coyote, according to biologists they are not Grey Wolves but some kind of breed of it's own, and to me it sounds more like Coy Dogs, and if they are, it might explain why they kill for the sport of killing. The deer don't have anymore yards to spend winters, so they come closer to farms and dwellings feeding in farmers fields, best place to be caught by coyotes, or killed by household pets (dogs) who kill for the sport of killing. It has become a sunday attraction to go see deer feeding on peoples front lawns off of a hay bail and hand feeding them apples, you want profit? charge them a fee to go see them, just like at the zoo. It's not natural for a wild deer to feed off apples, alfalfa, and what not we are giving them, hell the guys are giving them chocolate bars in the fields in Riley Brook, come on.

Financilly Bears are more attractive for the non resident hunter, but for the local Hunters, they are like a rat at the dump. People buy hunting licences and no one tags 'em. Non resident bear hunters kill almost 3 times the # bears in 1 week of hunting as resident bear hunters kill in 3 months???

According to DNR there are around 15-18 000 black bears in N.B., I could see anywheres from 3-8 bears a night when baiting for bear and not at the baits, but travelling from one to the other, I haven't seen one this spring. I have yet to see a coyote also.

As far as their winter yards, the problem is they are cutting those yards in the winter, when the deer are in there, why? Because they have to wait for the ground to freeze enough to be able to get in there. The deer have no choice but to get out in the open and find another place to yard, and with the deep snow they have no chance, most die of exhaustion and others to the hands of predators. If they would cut them yards in late spring and early summer the deer would find other places to yard and probably would be alright
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #52 ·
As for dnr estimate on bear population they have no idea whos counting?number could be less.residents kill 25-30% of the harvest but likely much higher as for lots are never retrieved or tagged.rats to the general public is an image that needs changed.if i shot deer and let them lay just for eating in the field id be in jail and sunged but other hunters.bears have a place and are a valuable resource in nb likely ten times that of deer.all species deserve respect..humans created the deer mess no other species.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
As for dnr estimate on bear population they have no idea whos counting?number could be less.residents kill 25-30% of the harvest but likely much higher as for lots are never retrieved or tagged.rats to the general public is an image that needs changed.if i shot deer and let them lay just for eating in the field id be in jail and sunged but other hunters.bears have a place and are a valuable resource in nb likely ten times that of deer.all species deserve respect..humans created the deer mess no other species.
True, but black bear kills in N.B. resident to non resident?

in 2014: 2 734 resident licences sold 494 bears tagged

2 016 non resident licences sold, 1 965 licences used, 1 172 bearsd tagged

DNR should have more enforcement in the woods,, I guided 10 years for bear hunting and haven't had the visit of 1 DNR officer.

Every animal in the forest is valuable, if not for revenue for us, it is for the predetory food chain
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
Seems more like a way for resident to carry a rifle, than hunt a bear...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Its another way to sit an apple pile an fill someone elses deer tag .any bear shot would rarely be tagged anyway.hard facts but too often true.
 
41 - 57 of 57 Posts
Top