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Personally, I don't think hunters count points before they shoot> This isn't Buckmasters where we watch and pass on 10 bucks in a day and count points through binoculars.

This also would not work because many large mature deer have few points (there are some huge 6's) and many small deer have a lot of points (a lot of young bucks with 8, 9, even 10 or 11 points). There are also many big deer that lose tines (and even entire antlers) in brawls.

For this to work, it would have to apply only to button bucks, spikes and the stereotypical fork-horn 3 or 4 point 1.5 year-old buck.
 

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To me this is no different than a minimum lobster size, if we take all the juveniles, what's our future?
My answer is obviously yes!
The difference here is we cannot catch (shoot) bucks, measure (count) their points and throw them back.

But I know what you mean about letting the juveniles go. So I would agree, visible juveniles should be passed on.
 

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The difference here is we cannot catch (shoot) bucks, measure (count) their points and throw them back.

But I know what you mean about letting the juveniles go. So I would agree, visible juveniles should be passed on.
Your supposed to count them before you kill it


The reason they go with point rules over age is because most people can count.
 

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Your supposed to count them before you kill it


The reason they go with point rules over age is because most people can count.
Most people can count (hopefully haha) but most people don't or can't count points on a buck i.e. a dark-antlered buck in the dim back-woods.
Like I said, this idea is a great one, but would only wrok on 0.5 (button bucks) and 1.5 year old deer (spikes, 3 and 4 point deer).
Too many big deer have 6 points and too many small deer have 8 + points for a system based solely on "points" to work.

You also run into broken tine and antler issues, as well as the "what do you consider a point to be" issue. Some people count 1/2 inch points and others 1 inch.

All said, I'm a big fan of restricting the harvest of spike horns, button bucks and 3 and 4 (or even 5) point bucks. Generally, these are the 6 month to 18 month old deer.
 

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Would I like to see one? Yes.

In my opinion would this be accepted as a good thing by the hunting community ? No

Is it good policy? Honestly I am not sure.
 

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this rule is already in place out west deer nothing under 4 points elk have to be atleast 10 points.and look at there numbers the proof is in the pudding!!with this rule most people are shooting anything becuase the wnt the meat in the frying pan,and i dont blame them!!
 

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So let me get this straight......Fresh Rub says yearling bucks can have spikes, 4, 6, 8, 9 and even 10 or 11 points. Now you want to put a rule on that says you can't shoot spikes, 3 or 4 pointers. THAT means you're going to allow hunters to kill all the 5,6,7,8,9, 10 and 11 point yearlings.

So........we're going to leave the runts, and whack all the big yearlings. Yep - sounds absolutely brilliant.
 

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My thoughts speaking strictly from a conservation point of view, it is better to take a young yearling, than it is to take a more mature animal.

Now, before you hang me, let me explain.

Yearlings are less likely to survive a winter, and less capable of defending themselves against a predator. So by passing on the yearling, and taking the older deer, potentially, 2 deer will be killed. One through projectile perforation, one through predator menu.

I still believe that only shooting bucks is harmful to the deer population as a whole.
 

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So let me get this straight......Fresh Rub says yearling bucks can have spikes, 4, 6, 8, 9 and even 10 or 11 points. Now you want to put a rule on that says you can't shoot spikes, 3 or 4 pointers. THAT means you're going to allow hunters to kill all the 5,6,7,8,9, 10 and 11 point yearlings.

So........we're going to leave the runts, and whack all the big yearlings. Yep - sounds absolutely brilliant.
Our current system is killing all the yearlings and runts. Yep - sounds absolutely brilliant.
 

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Only if you include a minimum width as well or something else in addition to a point rule to keep from high grading.

Yearlings are less likely to survive a winter, and less capable of defending themselves against a predator. So by passing on the yearling, and taking the older deer, potentially, 2 deer will be killed. One through projectile perforation, one through predator menu.
Show me the data that says a yearling is less likely to survive winter than an older buck or any less capable of surviving predators. Now had you said it is better to shoot a fawn or button buck instead of a more mature buck then you could make a pretty good case but not at the yearling stage.

Our current system is killing all the yearlings and runts. Yep - sounds absolutely brilliant
Our current system is taking yearlings from across the age class, it is far from killing all the yearlingsl
 

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So let me get this straight......Fresh Rub says yearling bucks can have spikes, 4, 6, 8, 9 and even 10 or 11 points. Now you want to put a rule on that says you can't shoot spikes, 3 or 4 pointers. THAT means you're going to allow hunters to kill all the 5,6,7,8,9, 10 and 11 point yearlings.

So........we're going to leave the runts, and whack all the big yearlings. Yep - sounds absolutely brilliant.
Im sure no rule is perfect, however, I know for a fact if you shoot a spike we will never know what it may become, I would safely argue an 11 point yearling is not the norm, but certainly the exception, were looking for the greater good.
 

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Hey Jeepman - you got any numbers at all to back up that statement?

If you want to kill what's not going to make the winter....shoot sqare headed fawns! half of the deer we klose to winter are fawns. Now THAT makes good sense.

Hey seadog ol pal - what about the 5,6,7,8,9 and 10's?

Check out what happened in New Hampshire and vermont. Both canned their spike rule......hi-grading.
 

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Hey Jeepman - you got any numbers at all to back up that statement?

If you want to kill what's not going to make the winter....shoot sqare headed fawns! half of the deer we klose to winter are fawns. Now THAT makes good sense.

Hey seadog ol pal - what about the 5,6,7,8,9 and 10's?

Check out what happened in New Hampshire and vermont. Both canned their spike rule......hi-grading.
Well i guess were pals, good to know...
Anyway, are the conditions, enviornment etc the same as here?
Logging practices? hunter population, human population, your example means nothing to our area, whats your solution?
 

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I think we should have an 8 point rule. 9 or bigger only!


You imagine the number of big bucks left after a few years with this rule in place???

Either way the herd is screwed. Seriously, even private land is messed so bad that regardless what we do it's not going to get much better. If we get a hard winter then everything we gained is gone. And it doesn't look like the forestry companies are putting away their machinery anytime soon.

It's just a matter of time before it's gone for good and we will sit around and ***** about something else because the government of New Brunswick let it go this way. Man got greedy and man ruined it among other things.
 

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Axeman,

I know you mean well and you feel just like most of us on here but seriously do you think we can actually reverse what has happened???? It hasn't gotten any better in 20 years. Yeah we had the small surges in population at one time or another but to wish for several mild winters is not realistic. Much less woods now then there was back a few year ago when we had a slight surge in population. Then a few bad winters and back at a low point. How low can it go before she's gone?

Good luck with what you are trying to do. It's nice to see you have so much passion for it.
 

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[quote name='Bowtech' date='18 November 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1290105590' post='10948']
Only if you include a minimum width as well or something else in addition to a point rule to keep from high grading.

Minimum width!? It's hard enough to count points in some situations, let alone estimate a width.

There are far too many trigger happy hunters out in the woods to think that a system like this could work. If a rookie hunter is in the deer woods and hears a deer coming into his stand, his heart starts pounding and the deer steps into an 8 foot clearing. He or she isn't going to take time to count points, squinting through the brush, glassing the chopping, he's going to take the shot before the deer steps back into the woods.

There was a case where a hunter thought he was shooting at a 10 or 14 point or something on the site earlier in the month but when he walked up to his kill he discovered he had shot a 4 point instead of his intended smasher...what happens here if it is illegal to shoot young deer like this. What would the fellow say when registering the deer "Yeah, I thought I was shooting at a bigger buck but it turned out to be a young one"? Anyone could make this excuse for their self.

I like the idea of taking the pressure off of the younger deer in some senses, but have a feeling that it could never work the way we want it to.

Someone really needs to get a council meeting or something together where we can all come and meet, we can discuss the many factors that are hurting our herd and discuss the best possible ways to deal with it. People need to bring facts and intelligent arguments to the table. There are things that should be done, this may be in the mix, but more effective ideas could be explored in my opinion. I do, however, think that a rule limiting the killing of the spikes - 5 point bucks is a step in the right direction, at least a thought in the right direction. The fact is though, the number of points on a rack isn't quite as good an indicator of the age of the deer as we might like to think it is.

Also, I don't think shooting young bucks with multiple points would be high grading. A 1.5 yr old spike horn may grow to have as nice a rack as a 5 point of the same age may grow to have. Is it really about the rack on the deer's head anyway, isn't it more about the health of the deer population as a whole? The high-grading point isn't floating with me.
 

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Well, I for one would love to see a point rule. Why? Because then I could be reasonably sure the little spike I pass on might actually survive the hunting season. I use the tired old excuse "If I let it go, someone else will shoot it", I do believe that for fact. If you knew the area I hunt, you wouldn't question it. I have noticed that deer sightings and sign are both on the decline where I hunt.

I don't believe in driving long distance to hunt. Personally I feel if you have to live with the results of over harvesting, eventually you'll learn to leave a few alive or else end up with nothing which seems to be the general direction around home.

As far as issues I see raised in earlier posts...

Minimum point rule should apply to one antler, ie, 4 points on one side, other beam could be totally broken off, have 1, 2, 3 or more points.

Countable points to be 1".

If you can't see the deer well enough to count the points, that may be a good indicator that you may not have a good shot to begin with.
 
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