New Brunswick Hunting Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,610 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please keep responses to others civil on this as I just want to know what baiting means to you.

I've struggled over the years with this question myself. At one time I thought of baiting as phyically placing a food source to draw an animal in to harvest it. Many game agencies use this definition as baiting using a planted souce really comes down to ones intent and you can not regulate intent. My opinion has expanded over the last few years as I reflect on some of the things I do myself. Just speaking for myself, I now believe baiting is drawing an animal into a specific area with a high probablility of harvesting it by using a food source either planted or placed by yours truly which alter travel patterns. If I put in a 30 acre oak plantation for the specific purpose of attracting deer for harvest but due to the size of the area I don't have any better chance of harvesting a deer I can't consider it baiting but if I plant a small orchard of say 1/4 acre and can cover the whole thing and harvest a deer anywhere within it I would consider it baiting.
Many have opinions that planted food sources are not baiting because you do not control the amount or to a lesser extend the timing of when it is available, which is valid as far as it goes. I don't totally agree with that but it is where many draw the line.
Then there is also scents and attractants which some places include and others do not and with these I don't yet know how I see them.

So what do you consider baiting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I consider baiting to be placing or using something to attract what ever it is your looking to attract... scent, decoys, food, sound, I would consider it baiting. If your intent is to use something to up the odds of attracting what ever it is your trying to see then you would be baiting. With that said, I would not think that an apple tree that has grown wild in the woods would be baiting if you sit by it for a deer to come and feed, as the deer would have come to that apple tree even if you had never known there tree was there... the tree would be uping your odds of seeing a deer, but to argue that and say it is baiting then you would have to say hunting in the bush is baiting... you know there is a better chance of seeing a deer in the woods than there would be of seeing one in the middle of a large lake (I know you can't hunt deer in the middle of a large lake, just making my point lol). As far as my thought on the 30 acre oak plantation, if it was done to attract deer then it would still be baiting, even though it is not to a confined area, it's intent would be to attract deer from another area. BTW good post Bowtech, had me thinking
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
What does baiting mean to me??

Sore shoulders/elbows and a dead buck lying on a pile of apples......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,153 Posts
hmmm...all interesting points!
but i do like nbguide's version and there is alot of truth to it!!
i know after i am done carrying apples to my spot...clearing my shooting lanes and building my ladder and setting up the blind...i take twice the meds that i would normally need! also when i get home i need a nice long hot bath!!! and i am sore for atleast the next 3 days!
here is my take on it!
i always hunted by walking in the woods for many years!
well..back in 2001 i was in a bad head on collison!!!
i have 75% of my body full of metal rods pins screws and plates!
i love the sport of hunting and look forward to it every year!
i dont take any vacation until hunting season!
so...in order for me to enjoy the sport that i have so much passion for i have to sit!
i cant walk in the woods like i used to!
therefore i built a blind and yes i put out apples and deer feeders!
this way i can still enjoy hunting and have 1/2 a chance of harvesting a deer or moose or bear!
i still do a walk around just to see where the deer are traveling but it is very limited!
maybe this is wrong but i will say that i have fed alot more deer than i have shot!
i go thru a bin of apples a year...and have watched alot of deer come to my baited spot without firing a shot or releasing an arrow!
for me it is just as exciting to see a deer and watch them as it is to shoot one!
i enjoy getting out in the fall and also by the time hunting season rolls around i am due for a vacation!
my summers are crazy here at the college and once the students are back in am full out for the first month!
i probably put in about 100 hr a week in the month of august and literally run my ass off in the month of sept!
i look after about 232 students and 50 instructors!
so, how a person hunts should be their own choice...whether or not baiting is an advantage...who knows!
i cant see it being as bad as the people that drives the roads and shoot something that they see 100 yards down the road!
just my opinion!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
Baiting to me is the use of anything that is not naturally there. Placing apples, planting a field, using scents, rattles, calls, decoys. It's all baiting, and it is part of hunting.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
the use of anything that is not naturally there
it is part of hunting..
Agreed.

Its just a means to an end in the hunting game.
I have no issues with baits or baiting, its a personal choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
There has been debate about what constitutes "baiting". I think that it's easy to start labelling all types of "luring" as "baiting". The use of calls, scents, and decoys are luring techniques, but they are not baiting...where's the bait? Baiting implies that you are using a food source as a lure. Just the same as fishing, if you're using food on the hook, then it's bait....if you're not using food on the hook, then it's a lure.

So for me, baiting is the intentional act of luring an animal with the use of food (planted or otherwise).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
I think Girlscout's answer is about exactly how I draw the distinction.

I have considered that my feelings about this may have something to do with the fact that I have no intention of lugging apples etc into the woods to sit over. That is only my opinion and I don't really care all that much if anyone else does either. Occasionally the debate becomes heated and I sincerely believe that the "what about the guy that plants food plots" argument was born as a result of these heated debates.

I sincerely believe that baiting alters the travel patterns of game fairly quickly, albeit temporarily. I believe that it absolutely increases one's chances of seeing game in a particular location...... so what I am saying they are effective in my opinion.

Now I do not think that deer are harmed (except the ones that are harvested ) when they gorge on an apple pile for a few weeks in the fall.

For Myself the only way that the bait debate becomes interesting is not when it is debated on it's own but when it is considered in association with another topic being debated. .... so it's been around for years, many people, actually considerably more people than I thought a few years ago do it and who am I to tell people what hunting means to them?

Good topic by the way

Most of the new hunting opportunities, season extensions, new weapon introduction etc .. fundamentally , aside from the political issues must answer the question of how the new introduction will effect the deer population --- or put another way will harvest numbers increase, and if so what does that do to the overall population that they are trying to maintain.

2 more weeks but no one can bait for example .... would the overall kill go up or down?

Don't like a 3 day moose season with 3000 hunters .... how about a 7 day season with 6000 hunters but it's bulls only.

Better stop because I'm getting too far off topic.
To answer your original question again I can't do better than this .
"I consider baiting to be the placement of a temporary food source for the soul purpose of attracting game to a specific location where it can be observed from a vantage point and subsequently harvested.Dumping apples for deer,filling a barrel full of donuts for bears,placing beaver carcasses on a frozen lake to shoot coyotes etc.,etc....that is baiting."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
There has been debate about what constitutes "baiting". I think that it's easy to start labelling all types of "luring" as "baiting". The use of calls, scents, and decoys are luring techniques, but they are not baiting...where's the bait? Baiting implies that you are using a food source as a lure. Just the same as fishing, if you're using food on the hook, then it's bait....if you're not using food on the hook, then it's a lure.

So for me, baiting is the intentional act of luring an animal with the use of food (planted or otherwise).
I know its a fine line, but as you mentioned, it is 'interpretation'.

Web defines baiting as the following;

a. Food or other lure placed on a hook or in a trap and used in the taking of fish, birds, or other animals.
b. Something, such as a worm, used for this purpose.
2. An enticement; a temptation.
3. Archaic A stop for food or rest during a trip.

1. To place a lure in (a trap) or on (a fishing hook).
2. To entice, especially by trickery or strategy.
3. To feed (an animal), especially on a journey.


So, using a lure, decoy, call, scent or other means of enticing an animal is baiting, by this interpretation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I know its a fine line, but as you mentioned, it is 'interpretation'.

Web defines baiting as the following;

a. Food or other lure placed on a hook or in a trap and used in the taking of fish, birds, or other animals.
b. Something, such as a worm, used for this purpose.
2. An enticement; a temptation.
3. Archaic A stop for food or rest during a trip.

1. To place a lure in (a trap) or on (a fishing hook).
2. To entice, especially by trickery or strategy.
3. To feed (an animal), especially on a journey.


So, using a lure, decoy, call, scent or other means of enticing an animal is baiting, by this interpretation.
LOL Bowman, good thinking, the dictionary does not lie
the word bait or baiting means an enticement, to tempt the deer to come to you by trickery or strategy... so to trick the deer with a call, scent, decoy, ect is as far as the meaning of the word goes, baiting
Therefore, if the apple tree was not placed by you it would not be trickery, you can not trick, lure or "bait" a deer into going somewhere that it would have gone to anyway with or without you unless you "bait" it with some scent to "lure" it, or use a call to "trick" it into comming at a time that it would not have normally chosen to come. Keep in mind alot of the lone apple tree's in the wild are from bears eating apples from hunters apple piles, or from apple tree's on the farm that they later carp out and a new tree is born. I do think though that when someone says they are going out to the bush to bait they mean they are going to throw a pile of apples or food on the ground to attract an animal... at least we hope thats what they mean... unless they are a weirdo but we won't go there LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Hey Bow-man, I couldn't agree more with you...it's an "interpretation".

I should have been more clear.

I guess I like to seperate luring in to distinct categories base on their type:
1. Calling
2. Scents
3. Decoys
4. Baiting

I guess it's the fisherman in me that wants to call food, "bait". I guess I could call my fourth category "food", as opposed to "bait".

It's really just a matter of semantics, but I think we're all talking about the same thing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
223 Posts
Planting food plots,apple trees,or making any other habitat improvements to make a property or the general vicinity more attractive to deer I do not consider baiting.I might be splitting hairs here,and it may indeed be a fine line when it comes to small "hunting plots",but I still don't consider them baiting any more than it is baiting to hunt overlooking a small wild apple orchard.Those apples are still gonna ripen,with or without me,and that brassica is still gonna sweeten after the frost and become attractive to deer,whether or not I watch it every day from a treestand or maybe haven't visited it since planting in August.It's going to provide food and nutrition before,during and after deer season and essentially become part of the "natural" forage base as far as the deer are concerned.An artificial apple pile or donut barrel needs to be manually replenished frequently and quickly loses it's appeal and attractiveness when that ceases to happen....ie:the baiter tags out or deer season ends for example.
Good topic BT. I know that this likely spilled over from a previous thread.

I would say IMHO that there is not much difference in my mind between hunting a food plot and hunting an apple pile. If I tend a piece of land, plant it in some form of forage (not trees) be it annual or perennial more than likely it would revert back to forest/meadow if left untended in a few years. I have no problem with people who hunt deer over apples or people that hunt over food plots. I used to hunt deer over apples and my shoulders did get sore! Now I prefer to tend a few salt licks in a few areas, but I consider that baiting too. When you are speaking about managing the landscape on a longterm basis by planting a tree species or managing the forest in a particular way to provide browse I am unsure where that falls in to the baiting line of thinking. I know I feel it is different to hunt an old apple tree around an abandoned homestead, but is that much different from hunting an apple orchard that is in commercial production? I dunno. I know that I used to enjoy hunting corn fields and it is nice when the corn combine spills corn on the fields. Is that baiting? There is definitely a bonus to hunting agricultural areas, but do I want to see more forest cut down and tilled over for food plots even if it is small openings? Not really, but I have other reasons for that which go beyond shooting a deer. Do I hunt farm land yes. Am I a hypocrite probably. Am I a baiter, I think so. I think I need a coffee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
I agree with girl scout . The temporary placing of a food source to attract game is baiting . all other year round things like apple trees and crops/food plots are area enhancers or even feeding if you will . I have no problem with any of these . It is all part of the game we like to call hunting . I believe hunters by nature have become a lot more informed over time and have changed our habits and technics just as the deer and other game has adapted and made use of there new oportunitese ie; improved crop production giving new feed sources not available in the old days : corn/ soy beans & other legume crops . Living in and around cities were there are new benifits to them . No matter what we hunters may think of each others so called moral guide lines we all must agree that all hunters are taking advatage of new technics / guns , bows , tree stands , calls , scentes, clothing , sythetic attractants ,trail cams , mineral licks......... who today would go out like our ancesters did and just randomly travel around and hope to see something and shoot whatever they happened upon with an old 30-30 with open sights . It all comes down to our own personal preferences on how hard we enjoy playing the game / how much time we have available/ and ofcourse our abilities and oportunities. We are very lucky we can all do things with our own little tricks . long live the game ......lead , follow , or stay out of the way !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
"... with an old 30-30 with open sights ."
- Works very effectively for me and a lot of other guys who know their way around in the woods .

Our Ancestors knew how to hunt , if you think todays generation of "hunters" are better than they were your kidding yourself .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
"Girlscout" wrote:

{I consider baiting to be the placement of a temporary food source for the soul purpose of attracting game to a specific location where it can be observed from a vantage point and subsequently harvested.Dumping apples for deer,filling a barrel full of donuts for bears, placing beaver carcasses on a frozen lake to shoot coyotes etc.,etc....that is baiting.}

..."Girlscout", you have definitely got a way with words..


I agree, this paragraph pretty much sum it up for me as well. The magic word here is "temporary". If you plant any sort of crop, then deer will come to it naturally. Weather it is a large farmers field, or a small backyard plot. But it still has to grow and mature before it can be utilised, as do any natural forage plants for deer.

When I dump a pile of apples or corn or whatever in one spot. I am deliberately trying to make that deer walk right up to the pile, so I will know the exact range where it will be standing. In a plot, I can't predict where or how far that deer will be standing at any given time.

The same goes for using scent or calls. Like calling moose. It may entice the animal in your direction, but there is no way of telling if it will come within the range you want. A mock scrape may bring a buck right up to smell it. But he has to be traveling in the area of his own will to do so. So I vote it as a "lure" to make him "stop" only. He is not going to stand at the scrape for an extended period of time like at a bait pile. He will invariably keep on moving, trying to locate the "hot" doe.

If when bear hunting, you spread bread all over the woods in a 100 yard radius. It is "still" baiting...but the "thin line" gets split again, whether you hunt that bear with a bow, verses a rifle. You can take the shot anywhere the bear is standing, with the gun. But with the bow, you must control the location of the bait for a closer shot. But the bear will be just as dead either way. And the closer shot with the bow...in my opinion, (even though baited in a specific spot)is "earned" more.. because of the difficulty in making that closer shot. But lets face it, other than baiting, how many hunters would be succesfull in taking a bear any other way with a bow? No too many.

I started out still-hunting for deer on crown land woods. When I started bowhunting, and baiting, I had mixed feelings about it compared to what I had been doing. Taking a buck one on one was a real thrill. But with the declining deer numbers, and my age,as well as health. I'm soon to be 52, and have a heart condition (not using it as an excuse, just a fact). Traveling way out in the big woods after deer is not as easy as it was. I still do not "enjoy" baiting deer. As others have said. It is hard work, time consuming..and it seems lately not very effective for me. My deer are getting increasingly wise to the practice.

I want to make it clear though that I "DO NOT" consider it "cheating" to bait for any game when using a bow. After all.. I still do it.
I just miss the old stalking challenge somewhat. I have no desire to shoot a deer over bait with rifle. But with a bow, it still provides a thrill for me. And my wife and I really enjoy sitting watching deer come in to the bait. And believe me, we do a "lot" more watching than shooting for sure! It is a very relaxing and soothing way to hunt as I get older. And is very convenient to be able to hunt close to home.

I would rather have a good alfalfa field to hunt over, or my own food plot. But I don't have much land here to utilise. And I never seem to find a "new" good hunting spot set up in advance. Older bucks around home here are getting harder to find every year. Although I did move to another location near home this week, and already had 11 deer under my stand this morning. All within 20 yards. Three bucks with them too! All yearlings though. One is a little basket 6 point,a spike, and a spike with only one antler. He was broadside at 15 yards. Awful temping I tell ya in the last week. But with all those other eyes and ears around me (five does were under my tree at the time)I couldn't have gotten drawn on him anyway. Maybe something bigger will show up before the weeks over. ....Or I might get weak, and take him this evening....if the [email protected]@%%##!!! wind would stop "Blowing"!!!
Interestingly enough, the only ones that ate any apples this morning were a fawn and the one antlered buck. And he was only there for about five minutes. They seem to be awful "wise" to bait this year, All they did for about an hour was walk all around my stand smelling. Of course I only stared baiting this spot yesterday. My take awhile to get used to it
Sorry, got off topic a bit there (the story teller in me).


ps: Just wanted to add....that to me the "perfect" way to bowhunt deer, would be to have my stand in the middle of a "White Acorn" grove..surrounded by some sort of forage fields. And to randomly catch the bucks(hopefully all real smashers)traveling too, and from the fields. Preferably I would "own" this land. And it would be located in ...lets say...."Illinois"!
 

·
Former Mod
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
"... with an old 30-30 with open sights ."
- Works very effectively for me and a lot of other guys who know their way around in the woods .

Our Ancestors knew how to hunt , if you think todays generation of "hunters" are better than they were your kidding yourself .
Well said GG....well said.

Not to veer off topic here (sorry BT) but how many of you have actually killed a mature (175lbs + 3.5yr old + deer) over apples and if so, has this happen more than once in your hunting career?

Tks.

BTW, I do not consider a natural food source (planted, alterated or enhanced by the hands of humans) to be a bait pile. If you're smart enough to do land improvement to attract deer, so be it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
To me, baiting means lots of does, a few young bucks, bears and raccoons.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top